51 – Bhangra In the Burgh 2021: Judges Review

51 – Bhangra In the Burgh 2021: Judges Review

51 – Bhangra In the Burgh 2021: Judges Review

On this episode of The Bhangra Podcast we talk to the judges of Bhangra in the Burgh 2021 about their placings!

Performances from Bhangra in the Burgh Playlist

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Transcript
Simran:

You know, like they did great gimmicks, but like Pooja just said a

Simran:

lot of the stuff was just running around and it was like, you do two counts and

Simran:

then move two counts and then move.

Simran:

You have to show . We have to be able to see that you can do actual Bhangra on the

Simran:

spot and everyone can look like a team

Umer:

This is the Bhangra Podcast

Umer:

we

Umer:

are back with our last episode of 2021.

Umer:

And fittingly enough, we finally get to talk about actual Bhangra up

Umer:

perform rather than it, having to talk about everything else outside for

Umer:

dancing.

Umer:

It's been like

Umer:

2 years good god today, we are talking with the judges of Bhangra in the

Umer:

Burgh 2021 When I talk to them about who they individually plays, how

Umer:

they ended up deciding on the final placing and everything else around the

Umer:

judging, Also, I just want to shout out Burgh for giving us a press pass

Umer:

in the competition.

Umer:

It let us record little moments

Umer:

backstage after performances.

Umer:

Dancers and according tech time, stuff like that.

Umer:

I also want to shout out to judges for being so open during this episode.

Umer:

and we got one little extra surprise I'll announce at the end of this

Umer:

episode.

Umer:

So stick around until the very end.

Umer:

Anyways.

Umer:

Thank you all for checking out this episode.

Umer:

Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel where we're going

Umer:

to be posting more video content along with a video form of this

Umer:

podcast.

Umer:

All right.

Umer:

Let's get to it.

Anil:

Fancy.

Anil:

Um, so let's go over a quick introduction for everybody.

Anil:

Can everybody go ahead And introduce themselves?

Anil:

We'll start with.

Simran:

Hey everyone.

Simran:

My name's

Simran:

Simran I'm from Toronto, Ontario, then doing Bhangra for the last 14 years now.

Simran:

Um, Just getting into judging, excited to see, you know, what the future.

Pooja:

sure.

Pooja:

Hey everybody I'm Pooja.

Pooja:

I've been dancing since I was six years old.

Pooja:

I'm classically trained, but I've been uh, served as captain

Pooja:

back while I was back in.

Pooja:

school And, um, most recently I've been dancing and competing with Fauj

Naina:

or one of the podcasts know who I am, and I'm usually on the

Naina:

other side of the microphone here.

Naina:

Um, but today I'm as guest.

Naina:

I've been dancing 2014, um, for whole

Naina:

bunch of teams based in New York city.

Naina:

And yeah.

Naina:

Excited today as a guest.

Anil:

Awesome.

Anil:

And Kuntal want to finish it up.

Kuntal:

Sure.

Kuntal:

Hey guys, this

Kuntal:

is Kuntal just, uh, been on the circuit for forever.

Kuntal:

Uh, since 2008, I'm

Kuntal:

also one of the co-founders of, uh, Carolina, Indian arts stance

Kuntal:

academy, and uh, championships of Bhangra So, uh, excited to

Kuntal:

be here,

Kuntal:

excited to

Kuntal:

you guys

Kuntal:

some, you know inside, look into what goes on in the judging

Kuntal:

room.

Kuntal:

So looking forward to it.

Anil:

All right.

Anil:

Yeah.

Anil:

So, um, let's go.

Anil:

I'm going to go, I know people have to leave by two, so we'll

Anil:

just jump right into this.

Anil:

Um, the first thing I just want to ask you guys, and just kind of to

Anil:

set the scene.

Anil:

Uh, the last time there was a big competition was March of 2019.

Anil:

So coming back, obviously this wasn't the first competition back,

Anil:

but with the names of the teams are coming and the first big in-person.

Anil:

What was your overall impression?

Anil:

How'd you guys feel coming back to actually come and watch it.

Anil:

Bhangra competition.

Simran:

think for myself, it was very, very refreshing because over

Simran:

the last two years, we've pretty much just been seeing online teams.

Simran:

Um, it's a better experience.

Simran:

You can judge a lot better.

Simran:

There's more chemistry between teams.

Simran:

Of course, it was hard

Simran:

to know what to expect with teams.

Simran:

Cause you didn't know, you know, over, COVID not a lot of teams

Simran:

were Um, they weren't active,

Simran:

but it was refreshing to see new ideas, um, current ideas

Simran:

being incorporated and such.

Pooja:

yeah, I would agree.

Pooja:

Um, to be completely honest, I think I was expecting more from this lineup since

Pooja:

we had some pretty big name teams at this

Pooja:

competition, but, you know, given that we've all had a couple of years without in

Pooja:

person comps, it's definitely harder now.

Pooja:

Uh, since training new dancers, holding practices.

Pooja:

Has undoubtedly been tricky for teams.

Pooja:

Um, but yeah, it was, it was really nice and refreshing to

Pooja:

see dancing back in person.

Pooja:

Now I was having FOMO over the entire time because I wanted

Pooja:

it to be dancing up on stage.

Naina:

Yeah, I think for myself, um, on the one hand, I think just personally,

Naina:

it felt really to be back at a comp Like it's been a really long time.

Naina:

I think even just being the same room as a bunch of like dancers, people that

Naina:

are, you know, our peers, people we know, um, I think it was like just like

Naina:

emotionally, a really nice moment to see a bunch of people that we know and

Naina:

care about doing they love care about.

Naina:

Um, I think from like a judging perspective, I definitely was really

Naina:

curious to know if things have been a lot of talk over the last year or

Naina:

two about like okay, what will it look like when everyone comes back?

Naina:

how will sets have change?

Naina:

Our people's like set design methods gonna have changed because of pandemic

Naina:

and those, you know, restrictions.

Naina:

That's put on everybody.

Naina:

So it's really cool to see like how many of those predictions came

Naina:

true and how many of them didn't.

Naina:

Um, but yeah, I think it was a good feeling overall be, back at competition.

Naina:

Just see what everyone's done.

Naina:

Yeah.

Kuntal:

For sure.

Kuntal:

Yeah.

Kuntal:

it was obviously enjoyable.

Kuntal:

Uh, And it was also really special was I didn't expect there

Kuntal:

to be a lot of ticket sales.

Kuntal:

Um, you know, just people being concerned about being in a crowd and whatnot,

Kuntal:

but, uh, whatever the Burgh committee did was awesome.

Kuntal:

Cause I think they sold like over a thousand tickets or 1200

Kuntal:

tickets or something like that.

Kuntal:

So having a, you know, one us getting to witness these

Kuntal:

teams, um, perform live again.

Kuntal:

But on top of that,

Kuntal:

being back in an

Kuntal:

environment where everyone's cheering each other on, it was just really

Kuntal:

special to be there.

Kuntal:

Yeah.

Kuntal:

And in terms of, you know, what teams brought w you know, it was going to be

Kuntal:

weird and it's, everyone's been wondering what it's going

Kuntal:

to be like.

Kuntal:

Um, you know, with passing off to the next

Kuntal:

generation of

Kuntal:

captains or, um, collegiate teams, trying to figure out how to do

Kuntal:

this from scratch pretty much.

Kuntal:

Um, but the one thing I think that we said from the get-go, even in our first

Kuntal:

judge's call with the teams was, uh, you've had two years to kind of come out.

Kuntal:

You know, creative moves and choreo and ideas.

Kuntal:

Uh, so we hope you hash those ideas out and figure out a way to present

Kuntal:

them in a way that blows us away.

Kuntal:

Um, I will echo Pooja in the sense that we weren't really that blown away.

Kuntal:

Uh, but

Kuntal:

everyone was pretty dang good for having a year and a half off or whatever it was.

Kuntal:

So, uh, that was very.

Anil:

Awesome.

Anil:

And just to touch back on what Kuntal

Anil:

you and Pooja just said Uh, were you guys overall like satisfied.

Anil:

or dissatisfied

Anil:

with what you saw or what

Anil:

the comp experience.

Pooja:

I would say I was definitely satisfied.

Pooja:

I mean, you

Pooja:

know, we're, we're all here because we loved like, this is, this is what we do.

Pooja:

And it's just, it's a blessing to be part of it.

Pooja:

So I would say in that sense, um, I think we're all pretty grateful that

Pooja:

we're still, still able to do this.

Pooja:

Um, but in terms of like the competitive sense, um, I'm, I'm hoping to see.

Pooja:

And the next down upcoming.

Kuntal:

Yeah, I felt like that was how I kind of tailored a

Kuntal:

lot of my discussion with teams.

Kuntal:

Um, was where do you go from here and how do you actually get yourselves

Kuntal:

back to where you used to be, or, or just push the you know, push the

Kuntal:

level of your team to the next tier?

Kuntal:

Um, and that.

Kuntal:

was basically how I framed every conversation and.

Kuntal:

In, in the hopes of, uh, next semester's comps, you know,

Kuntal:

actually blowing people away.

Kuntal:

Uh, so hopefully, you know, this was just a stepping stone to get back into, um, as

Kuntal:

competitive as the circuit was before the.

Naina:

I think it definitely.

Naina:

Also, if you look at Burgh's pass one of the.

Naina:

things that surprising to me along the lines of what, Pooja and

Naina:

Kuntal arehighlighting is that.

Naina:

I feel like in years past, it's always been, know, like the, the Burgh lineup has

Naina:

always really strong and not say that the lineup was not strong this year at all.

Naina:

It totally was.

Naina:

But in the past you get a lot of burgs where there's like a cluster of teams

Naina:

at top where everyone has their own opinion about like, who really could

Naina:

have taken for a second or third.

Naina:

Right.

Naina:

And, know, that's obviously like indicative of the strength of the

Naina:

teams that Burgh brings every year.

Naina:

And like as a panel, when we

Naina:

were judging, uh, this past competition, it didn't feel like there was that cluster

Naina:

of teams where it was like really hard to see who was going to edge each other out.

Naina:

Um, teams did well overall, but it's, it was still like there was

Naina:

still a deficit between like the.

Naina:

top few teams.

Naina:

And then there was like a drop he's like that skill level of

Naina:

like, the next few teams and there was drop for next few teams.

Naina:

So it wasn't as, uh, the

Naina:

skill level and Like execution and creativity of the teams was not

Naina:

clustered around Like the same level.

Naina:

the way I feel like it hit has Burgh's past

Simran:

Yeah, I agree in the sense that every team did

Simran:

bring a good performance, but.

Simran:

At that competition level, it was very clear cut out, um, kind of first,

Simran:

second, third, and then so forth.

Simran:

I think going forward it's maybe this was just kind of teams getting back into

Simran:

it, trying to figure out how they're going to be meeting during the pandemic.

Simran:

Um, kind of feeling out the circuit,

Simran:

what everyone is looking forward to, but going forward, I do

Simran:

want to see a little bit more, um, Kind of all the teams at the same level, in

Simran:

a sense and more deliberation for sure

Anil:

All right.

Anil:

Great.

Anil:

Um, so speaking of like, I guess the lineup of what the teams brought

Anil:

themselves, um, and you guys obviously took notes throughout the competition.

Anil:

Can we get like a high level,

Anil:

breakdown of what you saw from different.

Anil:

Like things like gimmicks.

Anil:

Wow.

Anil:

Factors.

Anil:

What was memorable?

Anil:

Like just kind of break that, break that down at a high level.

Kuntal:

sure.

Kuntal:

I can take this one.

Kuntal:

you know, to be completely honest, this was the easiest judges deliberation.

Kuntal:

meeting I've ever been in I've judged a lot of comps and I've never had a

Kuntal:

deliberation that took three minutes and this one did, um, it was a clear one,

Kuntal:

clear two and like a 90 second discussion kind of about three, but not really.

Kuntal:

Um, so, you know, placings wise, we were all on the same page and

Kuntal:

that was nice, but it just kind of emphasizes the fact that it wasn't.

Kuntal:

No one brought anything that, you know, made us question, uh, or, you know,

Kuntal:

made our different backgrounds, have a

Kuntal:

conversation about what was going on.

Kuntal:

So, uh, I thought that was interesting.

Kuntal:

Um,

Kuntal:

And I also thought it was awesome though.

Kuntal:

We didn't have to have that discussion and a potential argument about any placings,

Kuntal:

um, especially knowing, uh, you know, the last three Burgh's that I've been a part

Kuntal:

of it's ha it has been that experience.

Kuntal:

So, um, it was definitely different.

Kuntal:

Um, getting into the teams though, um, you know, first class one first, um, and.

Kuntal:

I think right after they

Kuntal:

performed Sumit and I looked at each other and were like, they're just so

Kuntal:

smart and know how to do this rubric and know how to work this stage.

Kuntal:

Um,

Kuntal:

basically everything they did, you know, segment a segment, they just

Kuntal:

knew how to capitalize on a whatever memorable thing they were trying

Kuntal:

to do in every single segment.

Kuntal:

Nothing like blew us away about it, but it was just really, really good.

Kuntal:

Um, And the timing was very well done.

Kuntal:

So, you know, like the way they build up to their effects, it

Kuntal:

happens in a way that the first time you watch it, you appreciate

Kuntal:

it.

Kuntal:

Um, I'll let some of these other guys get

Kuntal:

into more set, specific stuff, but I just thought I'd mentioned that

Kuntal:

with a First Class in the first place

Kuntal:

team.

Simran:

I think for me, another thing that was really nice was

Simran:

they were hitting their drops They were hitting their gimmicks.

Simran:

Like it made sense when they would do anything, even if it was super subtle.

Simran:

So like to get into very specifics, they played black and yellow.

Simran:

They had a black and yellow jodi come to the.

Simran:

front Very subtle, but the crowd understood it.

Simran:

Judges understood it.

Simran:

And it's just little moments like that, that just build up your set to

Simran:

become a first place set As Kuntal has also said they studied the rubric.

Simran:

They knew where their major points, where they knew where, you know, we

Simran:

don't need to focus too much here because this is what the big winner is.

Simran:

Um, other teams, they did have really, really good sets, but

Simran:

I feel like it was kind of.

Simran:

If they had good formation, they would lack on execution.

Simran:

If they had good sync, they would lack on formations.

Simran:

Um, a lot of teams, what we repeatedly said was what was

Simran:

memorable about yourself?

Simran:

What was the one part in each segment that you wanted us to remember?

Simran:

And as a team.

Simran:

you should be able to tell the judges that, especially on a panel of.

Simran:

Uh, you expect a lot more deliberation.

Simran:

We all come from very, very different backgrounds.

Simran:

So it's kind of just like making sure that you're well-rounded as

Simran:

opposed to just one strong set,

Simran:

um, teams had really, really strong dancers as well.

Simran:

They would have,

Simran:

you know, like Furteelay did the heartbeat thing in the start.

Simran:

Uh, they had a nice vibey jhummar, but then it was like, sometimes there's a

Simran:

few segments that don't have that same.

Naina:

Yeah, I would say that looking at the sets overall, really both

Naina:

first-class and Farishtey had the.

Naina:

Consistent, uh, segment to segment central idea.

Naina:

That was like important thing you get?

Naina:

I wouldn't say that it was like either first, they are

Naina:

first class as best sets ever.

Naina:

Um, but I think that those two teams did the best in terms of having something

Naina:

in every single segment, um, and know, selling their set really well.

Naina:

I do not think that like Farishtey their scores.

Naina:

If you look at the way we scored them there, You know, execution in sync kind

Naina:

of fell a little bit short, but we all felt like they were really creative

Naina:

and they were really selling their.

Naina:

Um, so I would say that those two teams did the

Naina:

best in terms of every segment, having something like someone saying, Um,

Naina:

that's not to the other teams, didn't also have out segments, but that

Naina:

was kind of exactly where they fell short, where they had like one or two

Naina:

really stand out, incredible segments.

Naina:

and then the rest of the set.

Naina:

necessarily live up to

Naina:

that standard that they themselves had set for, know the performance

Naina:

that they were doing that night.

Naina:

So, you know, mob had a

Naina:

jhummar that all of our.

Naina:

We watched that.

Naina:

And we all just had like the best time watching them dance there's are more,

Naina:

Um, we didn't feel that way, the entire set which would have been really nice.

Naina:

and, kind of know, we hope that mob and the next time they go to competition,

Naina:

the care that they put in designing that segment, the way that they dance it is

Naina:

what they to the rest of their design now, because we know they can do it.

Naina:

We just need to see that done throughout.

Naina:

So that's just one example, but I think that was a theme that

Naina:

all of us picked up on And that.

Naina:

was

Naina:

also thematic and the feedback we the

Naina:

entire

Pooja:

definitely, definitely.

Pooja:

I could echo that as well.

Pooja:

Um, there was a lot of strong dancing from teams, but it came down to like the

Pooja:

consistency and keeping everyone engaged,

Pooja:

um, by like having

Pooja:

dynamic pacing in your set.

Pooja:

Um, you know, making sure

Pooja:

you're hitting every section of the rubric,

Pooja:

like Kuntal was saying, I did want to mention.

Pooja:

So I actually really liked, uh, Cornell set.

Pooja:

Um, they tried some different things with their set and, uh, some of them

Pooja:

hit some of them didn't but what matters is that they tried to be bold.

Pooja:

Um, like dancer maturity execution are definitely the biggest areas

Pooja:

of improvement, but I think they're on the right track.

Pooja:

And I loved seeing kind of that.

Pooja:

Go get it.

Pooja:

Attitude for them, even in the

Pooja:

judges meeting, like makes me excited to see what they're going to bring.

Anil:

All right.

Anil:

Yeah.

Anil:

Um, and I guess just one thing I got, I want to touch on or kind of

Anil:

go over is that, um, of people will like everybody, all the viewers will

Anil:

have their own opinion on who should have placed, but I don't think they

Anil:

understand what they're being, what the teams are being judged off of because

Anil:

every comp has a different rubric.

Anil:

So can you guys just break down this rubric and how it applies to.

Anil:

The placing is applied to that rubric who, who got first and why they

Anil:

got first, according to the rubric.

Kuntal:

Sure I can take this one.

Kuntal:

Um, so the.

Kuntal:

There's three overall umbrellas of categories in this rubric.

Kuntal:

First one being set design and within set design there's creativity,

Kuntal:

choreography, design, and formations, sorry, difficulty of choreography,

Kuntal:

design of formations, and then cohesion.

Kuntal:

How does all that work together kind of thing.

Kuntal:

Um, so that's a total of what was that?

Kuntal:

45 points I think, uh, And then there's two execution umbrellas.

Kuntal:

So one is dance execution.

Kuntal:

That's talking about form and stage presence, and then there's

Kuntal:

set execution, you know, as a team, how did you execute the set?

Kuntal:

Uh, so sync and, um, executing your formations and team energy.

Kuntal:

Um, so those are the main buckets of you know, of the rubric there.

Kuntal:

Um, so if you're talking about, you know, comparing design versus

Kuntal:

execution, um, 45 was set design.

Kuntal:

30 was dancer execution.

Kuntal:

30 was set execution.

Kuntal:

So total of 60 for execution.

Kuntal:

So you weren't going to win this comp without, you know, having practiced a lot

Kuntal:

and, you know, executing at a high level.

Kuntal:

Uh, but on top of that, there, there is, you know, 15 points

Kuntal:

for creativity of choreography.

Kuntal:

Uh, Which is where there was a kind of a big spread, um, you know, in

Kuntal:

terms of, uh, how the team stacked up and why that, you know, ended

Kuntal:

up working out the way it does.

Kuntal:

You know, you always got to remember that this is an average of five

Kuntal:

people's numbers that go into it.

Kuntal:

And it's not just like, arbitrarily picking or anything like that.

Kuntal:

But, uh, for this night, First Class won every single one of the categories on

Kuntal:

the rubric, except for one And that was

Kuntal:

Um, So you know, it's very easy to see how they won this rubric.

Kuntal:

if they literally won every single category.

Kuntal:

Um, after that Farishtey Furteelayor you know, RVD and mob were all

Kuntal:

kind of mixed, depending on which category we're talking about.

Kuntal:

Um, for example, like RVD was the top score in form on the night.

Kuntal:

Uh, but we're 1, 2, 3, 4, fifth in.

Kuntal:

Fourth and set design.

Kuntal:

Um, you know, So when you have that kind of spread category to category,

Kuntal:

it's not going to help you get that, um, total score that gets you the placing.

Kuntal:

Um, So again, just goes back to how FCB was smart about how

Kuntal:

they checked off pretty much every single box on the rubric.

Kuntal:

And it added up to enough for them to, to be the clear winner of that night.

Kuntal:

Um,

Naina:

I just want to say something that like, for people who might be

Naina:

listening to who like have not judged before, I think this is something

Naina:

that people forget is one as judges who are there for the competition.

Naina:

Like we get one look at what's happening as it's happening.

Naina:

And so a lot of.

Naina:

times, and like, it's something that I used to do right.

Naina:

When I was like a younger dancer and didn't really understand how like judging

Naina:

or rubrics work, I would be like, watch the videos when they came out afterwards.

Naina:

Like, it looks very different and you're watching a very different

Naina:

pace in a very different environment.

Naina:

You can also like rewind, right?

Naina:

So like the perspective that you have as a judge watching is very

Naina:

different from what other people have.

Naina:

And then also judging against the rubric.

Naina:

Um, if you're doing a good job of judging, you're evaluating just against that

Naina:

rubric, not necessarily what you want.

Naina:

So the way that we, as a panel place, these teams, like we all had

Naina:

very, very, very similar scores.

Naina:

We do not have very similar backgrounds nor do we have

Naina:

very similar personal tastes.

Naina:

Right.

Naina:

But we all have the same scores.

Naina:

So I think, you know, it's important to remember that who we think

Naina:

places is not always indicative of.

Naina:

Who we like best or who we think we had the most fun watching, like all

Naina:

of those things have their place on a rubric, like having fun, watching someone

Naina:

figures under current stage presence.

Naina:

But it's important.

Naina:

Remember that like everyone has their own opinions about what they like,

Naina:

but part of the job of judging is to match that against a rubric and

Naina:

make sure that that's, you know, represented properly the score

Naina:

itself.

Simran:

And I think it's important to remember that like these rubrics

Simran:

for each comp are created by the judges on the panel, teams are given

Simran:

these rubrics months in advance.

Simran:

So they know exactly what it is.

Simran:

We're looking for.

Simran:

Same as Naina said, I could love a team, but that doesn't mean that what this

Simran:

comp they would win maybe a different comp it would be a first place that.

Simran:

Um, also just remembering, like you can have great set design, but if

Simran:

your execution isn't there, you're not selling that choreography.

Simran:

You're not showing us the true potential of your set.

Simran:

Um, First Class being the first place team first there being the second

Simran:

place team, they had, you know, strong set design, which is 35 points.

Simran:

They had good execution.

Simran:

They had, um, good team execution, set execution, form.

Simran:

Maybe not

Simran:

The top form of the night, but

Simran:

it was still there.

Simran:

They were, still able to show us exactly what it was that they wanted to show.

Simran:

Um, so I think that's another thing

Simran:

when you're trying to

Simran:

win a comp just remembering that judges are watching

Simran:

everything as a whole.

Simran:

It's not

Simran:

just like we have a

Simran:

great set so we're

Simran:

gonna.

Kuntal:

Yeah.

Kuntal:

And I think, um, something that's shifted in the circuit, which is great

Kuntal:

is that these rubrics are getting more organized in ways that.

Kuntal:

One for judges to, to score right away, but to, to communicate

Kuntal:

that to teams and, and, you know,

Kuntal:

on top of that, maybe also, uh, doesn't allow

Kuntal:

as much for, uh, judging preferences

Kuntal:

or judges preferences to play a

Kuntal:

part in who wins that night.

Kuntal:

And, you know, uh, when you have a good rule,

Kuntal:

It's going to work out in the way you want it to work out and what, whatever

Kuntal:

the vision of that comp, you know, was,

Kuntal:

um, laid out to us, uh, from the committee

Kuntal:

is, is going to show up, uh, at the end of the day in the scores, if the rubric was

Kuntal:

constructed to match that.

Anil:

I so know that first place.

Anil:

What places were, what Farishtey

Anil:

no, Farishtey second, first class first.

Anil:

And for Furteelay third, correct.

Anil:

Um, what was the difference between.

Anil:

First and second place, like why, why first-class get first?

Anil:

Y'all you said they like scored high and they got the high score in every category.

Anil:

Um, but what could have, what could have like Farishtey I've done

Anil:

better to take that first place.

Pooja:

yeah, I can take a crack at this one.

Pooja:

Um, and as my perspective, judges,

Pooja:

please add if you can think of anything else, but from, even from our discussions,

Pooja:

like, um, first day, it was very pleasurable to watch good stage presence.

Pooja:

Um, solid set.

Pooja:

There just weren't memorable drops, especially in their, um, prop segments.

Pooja:

Um, they built cool moments, cool small moments, but, um, they could have hammered

Pooja:

them harder and good use of stage, but sometimes I felt like they were,

Pooja:

um, you know, not hitting all the formations or like they were just,

Pooja:

um, moving around a bit too much and not letting their formations

Pooja:

and their ideas be digestible.

Pooja:

Um, In those ways FCB had a leg up.

Pooja:

Um, and it goes back to what Kuntal was saying in terms of FCB

Pooja:

just did like one or two points better in every single category.

Pooja:

And that's what, what, um,

Simran:

I think also, um, fresh.

Simran:

They had a really good set.

Simran:

I can't say I didn't enjoy it.

Simran:

You know, like they did great gimmicks, but like Pooja just said a lot of

Simran:

the stuff was just running around and it was like, you do two counts and

Simran:

then move two counts and then move.

Simran:

You have to show . We have to be able to see that you can do actual Bhangra on the

Simran:

spot and everyone can look like a team.

Simran:

Another thing for myself was there were very, very small mistakes that

Simran:

first they had, you know, they had two dancers that almost fell on

Simran:

stage, um, legs showing on Dhammal.

Simran:

That's like, of course it doesn't dock a whole lot of points, but when you put

Simran:

it into perspective and you look at the little, little mistakes that add up it.

Simran:

And you're comparing to a team that won first place that had

Simran:

very, very minimal mistakes.

Simran:

It's it's not so much of a deliberation.

Simran:

Um, and then another thing I would say is they had really good

Simran:

dancers, but then there are some dancers that can still match up

Simran:

to different levels.

Simran:

Um, some dancers stick out a little bit more than others.

Simran:

Of course, that's dancer maturity.

Simran:

It's just experienced, but

Simran:

just making sure everyone

Simran:

looks alike.

Simran:

No, one's standing up.

Kuntal:

Yeah.

Kuntal:

And, And, just to give some context, you know, they were three

Kuntal:

and a half points back or three points or so back on the night.

Kuntal:

And I think, um, and that's across an entire 115 point rubric.

Kuntal:

So we're not talking about like a giant spread here.

Kuntal:

Uh, but it was enough for there not to be a conversation about, um, you know,

Kuntal:

whether or not first had deserved first.

Kuntal:

Yeah.

Kuntal:

Like they said that, that there were two falls, a mismatch here.

Kuntal:

Uh, On top of that, you know, they, I told them in the meetings that they,

Kuntal:

I didn't feel like they researched the Burgh stage and what hits well

Kuntal:

formation only on the Burg stage.

Kuntal:

Well, um, and that took away from some of their moments.

Kuntal:

So, you know, th the combination of all of those things

Kuntal:

just gave FCB enough padding to, you know, not even be for not to be

Kuntal:

a conversation where we're, we're thinking about switching those to.

Naina:

three points on the whole.

Naina:

Right?

Naina:

But like, if you look at the averages, they're almost a full point behind

Naina:

FCB Just on design of formations.

Naina:

Right?

Naina:

So we've, we all say, we've been saying how, like, we, like their

Naina:

formations could have been better.

Naina:

Right.

Naina:

And it's reflected in that score.

Naina:

There were like, that really could have,

Naina:

you know, they really could have closed the gap there.

Naina:

And then you're not a three, maybe you're down to like just two points.

Naina:

Right.

Naina:

and just, you do a little bit better in every single category.

Naina:

They're like pretty much the second place team behind, uh, first

Naina:

class in the majority of the categories, you know, Kuntal highlighted some

Naina:

of the other discrepancies earlier.

Naina:

Yeah, just a little bit better in everything really could

Naina:

have really could have pushed.

Kuntal:

The biggest, uh, spread that FCB made with Farishtey is, is, you know,

Kuntal:

going back to those three buckets of score, uh, categories in set design alone,

Kuntal:

you know, FCB was up over two points.

Kuntal:

You know, that that's most of the.

Kuntal:

The, the spread right there.

Kuntal:

Um, you know, just in those, in that 35 point category out of 115,

Kuntal:

there's a two point spread already.

Kuntal:

So it, it just, you know, it echoes

Kuntal:

everything we're saying that they didn't quite make their set work for.

Anil:

As you guys are saying first place and second

Anil:

place kind of clear cut based off the

Anil:

scores and the spread.

Anil:

Um, third place you said there was, that was where the main debate

Anil:

was though it was like 90 seconds.

Anil:

But like, what was, what was the debate there?

Anil:

Like why, how many teams were like competing for.

Anil:

third place right there?

Kuntal:

So I think, uh, four judges.

Kuntal:

No three judges had Furteelay third just from numbers.

Kuntal:

Um,

Kuntal:

and there were two other teams that we kind

Kuntal:

of talked about.

Kuntal:

RVD was in the running and MOB was in the running.

Kuntal:

So those sort of the three teams that we kind of discussed

Kuntal:

for a third place, um, MOB,

Kuntal:

we just didn't feel like had enough.

Kuntal:

For us to consider stepping outside of the rubric and considering them for third,

Kuntal:

um, RVD is an interesting situation.

Kuntal:

Um,

Kuntal:

like I said, they had the top form score of the night.

Kuntal:

Uh, but you know, they had an unfortunate situation where they had a dancer

Kuntal:

leave the stage, um, and that dancer leaving stage was a distraction.

Kuntal:

And, um, you know, when you think about it in terms of, oh, just one dancer left

Kuntal:

the stage, it was probably a deduction.

Kuntal:

And maybe it makes sense that there may be

Kuntal:

more in the conversation, but when you think about it in terms of what

Kuntal:

a judge has to do and, uh, putting that to numbers on the, on the sheet,

Kuntal:

you know, if someone's leaving stage

Kuntal:

you're you're losing points in sync, you're losing points in stage presence.

Kuntal:

You're losing points in formation, execution, and

Kuntal:

losing points and the energy.

Kuntal:

So you're losing just even if it's a decimal and each of those

Kuntal:

things or a point each of those things, that's enough basically to

Kuntal:

take you out of the running, uh,

Kuntal:

So I, Naina I think I'll, I'm gonna throw this to you cause you, you

Kuntal:

kinda, I think you had them in third.

Kuntal:

So I want you to have a chance to

Naina:

So,

Kuntal:

maybe talk about that.

Naina:

had them in third, but again, like as soon as we stepped into

Naina:

deliberations, like it, it wasn't.

Naina:

It wasn't a third.

Naina:

I felt so

Naina:

strongly about that.

Naina:

I was like, oh no, it

Naina:

makes sense to give it to them over Furteelay Right.

Naina:

So I think my scores were Furteelay and RVD were close enough that it made sense.

Naina:

Um, I would say that, you know, I, I definitely agree with everything

Naina:

Kuntal just said about, you know, they're form being really excellent.

Naina:

Um, and then, you know, the dance we're leaving stage, you know,

Naina:

having the repercussions that it did.

Naina:

Um, think it's, it's, it's hard to, you know, look at

Naina:

it on the whole picture when.

Naina:

Their form is so excellent at the same time, there were, like we said earlier,

Naina:

there was certain segments that.

Naina:

were like so much fun to watch.

Naina:

There were certain segments where I think we all kind of started

Naina:

to like lose our concentration a little bit, which is not something

Naina:

that you want happening as judges.

Naina:

So, um, I think, you know, it makes sense when you look at the context

Naina:

of the rubric, where there was more points allocated to words, Execution.

Naina:

And then there were like, you know, creativity.

Naina:

And so RVD set is execution wise, um, you know, a little bit better than

Naina:

it is creatively than like, I guess, you know, that's the way the points

Naina:

worked out the way I scored them.

Naina:

But you know, when you look at it on the whole, and you look at, you know,

Naina:

how for daily did versus how RVD did my scores were not far enough apart

Naina:

that I felt like RVD was a clear third and especially, you know, as a panel.

Naina:

It felt like we were all on the same page about what we'd seen that night.

Naina:

And it made sense to, and that deliberation to a word for delay,

Naina:

the third place they had done well enough, it bumps in my eyes and in

Naina:

the other judges eyes to deserve that.

Simran:

And

Simran:

yeah.

Kuntal:

Yeah, just one thing, just to shine some light on what

Kuntal:

Naina is saying about their set.

Kuntal:

Um, you know, I'm looking at the numbers out of 45 points and set

Kuntal:

design and RVD score, like just over 30, like 30.6 out of 45.

Kuntal:

So they left 15 points on the

Kuntal:

table and just the set they

Kuntal:

created for this rubric.

Kuntal:

Uh, it's hard to overcome that many

Kuntal:

points that you didn't, you know, achieve on that rubric.

Kuntal:

So just something worth mentioning, sorry, someone go

Simran:

And that's what I was, I was going to kind of mention like

Simran:

it's of course the main thing that everyone thinks about as an audiences.

Simran:

Okay.

Simran:

They had a green dancer leave, but that's not to

Simran:

say if the green dancer stayed that They would have won third, there's a

Simran:

lot of other discrepancies in the set.

Simran:

They had a shikka

Simran:

lock right in the first like 10 seconds.

Simran:

You know, there's a lot of, I feel like

Simran:

their set was really tight in terms of spacing.

Simran:

Some formations would be.

Simran:

Um, you know, there would be energy discrepancies where the

Simran:

middle is completely killing it.

Simran:

And everyone

Simran:

on the side is just walking the set.

Simran:

So it's not to say that they would have won third, but maybe, Um, they

Simran:

might've been in the conversation, but in comparison set to set Furteelay came

Simran:

on stage a lot stronger.

Simran:

They knew the stage, they knew the comp they knew the

Simran:

rubric Furteelay had some minor mistakes as well.

Simran:

I don't think it was

Simran:

enough where it could have been a conversation where RVD would have placed

Simran:

over Furteelay at this comp at least

Pooja:

Yeah, I agree with everything that's been

Pooja:

said so far.

Pooja:

So I was the

Pooja:

one that

Pooja:

had actually had mob

Pooja:

and Furteelay tied for third in

Pooja:

terms of points.

Pooja:

Um, but when it comes down to, when it came down to deliberations, like.

Pooja:

All agreed.

Pooja:

Like MOB's set just felt a bit monotonous and their stage

Pooja:

presence could have been better.

Pooja:

That's where Furteelay kind of took the leg up over them.

Pooja:

Um, at least

Pooja:

for me, uh, and, um, in terms of why Furteelay placed third,

Pooja:

as opposed to further up,

Pooja:

I would say, uh, this, this rubric was

Pooja:

execution heavy and that's

Pooja:

kind of where they took, um, more of a backseat compared

Pooja:

to Farishtey

Anil:

Alright.

Anil:

Um, so like moving forward with, you know, the comp season.

Anil:

What, what is your, take away from.

Anil:

this competition?

Anil:

And what, do you want to see going forward for them, for like, teams that

Anil:

are listening to this right now that are applying to different competitions.

Anil:

We know March is full of a bunch of them right now.

Anil:

What do you want teams to take away from?

Simran:

I think for myself, I want teams to bring new things to the table.

Simran:

A lot of things that have been presented as

Simran:

recycled material from like 2012 to 2018.

Simran:

And that like Bhangra was

Simran:

huge back in 2012, where teams would come out and they would bring out sets

Simran:

where you would sit there and think, how did they even think of that?

Simran:

And we're not getting a lot of that anymore.

Anil:

I think it's really funny.

Anil:

I just wanted to bring this

Anil:

up.

Simran:

Yeah.

Anil:

Um, I, I just judged one accomplished at Atlanta and I

Anil:

asked one of the teams.

Anil:

I was like, who is your, a lot of the teams, all these young teams

Anil:

are like taking ideas, but not

Simran:

Um, older

Anil:

they're how, how old, like where they're from.

Anil:

And I was like, ask the question.

Anil:

I was like, what, what, like, how far back do you watch

Anil:

videos from?

Anil:

And they said 2017 and I was kind of heartbreaking.

Anil:

I was like,

Simran:

Yeah, like, Bhangra had its prime.

Anil:

yeah.

Simran:

to 14, whatever that era was.

Simran:

And it's like, I kind of want to see it come back where now we, as judges

Simran:

who have been in the circuit where crazy things are happening, we can say,

Simran:

well, like this is great, you know?

Simran:

And of course still preserving proper Bhangra being able to keep the form.

Simran:

No, this is what I need to hit more modhe.

Simran:

This is when I need to do this.

Simran:

I'm not just doing Bhangra for the sake of Bhangra though.

Simran:

You have to be able to face

Simran:

what actual Bhangra

Kuntal:

I

Kuntal:

think.

Kuntal:

You know, the effect we're talking about is the Instagram effect, right?

Kuntal:

The Tik Tok effect.

Kuntal:

Um, we're talking about how teams are all kind of, you

Kuntal:

know, it's, it's what looks good

Kuntal:

on, on social media versus what looks good on stage and as a team.

Kuntal:

and

Kuntal:

uh, those don't always go

Kuntal:

hand in hand.

Kuntal:

Um, I like the fact that the,

Kuntal:

you know, the social media side of it is pushing.

Kuntal:

You know, try and be unique with their

Kuntal:

choreo and stuff, but at the same time, it just ends up being people

Kuntal:

ripping each other's choreo.

Kuntal:

Um, so, you know, we have a lot of time on our hands and we've had a lot of

Kuntal:

time and

Kuntal:

I hope to

Kuntal:

see more, um, more of an identity from each

Kuntal:

team.

Kuntal:

Um, you know,

Kuntal:

like figuring out who you are as a team, what kind of moments you want to sell?

Kuntal:

Obviously we don't want the same flavor

Kuntal:

of moments over and over and over, uh, and you're set, but

Kuntal:

you know, it should be obvious.

Kuntal:

What you want us to think of your team when, when, when we're watching

Kuntal:

you, um, and what vibe you want to,

Kuntal:

you know, to have as a team.

Kuntal:

Um, so I think that's a big part of it.

Kuntal:

Just, you know, trying to figure

Kuntal:

out, you know, after all this time off

Kuntal:

who you are

Kuntal:

as a team.

Kuntal:

Um, and then just to piggyback that being smart, like First Class was at this

Kuntal:

comp and knowing how to work that

Kuntal:

rubric study the rubric so hard to make sure that every

Kuntal:

segment lines up with the

Kuntal:

rubric so that you can get credit for your ideas.

Pooja:

yeah, I'm really looking forward to the teams.

Pooja:

Um, kind of honing into that identity aspect is.

Pooja:

And really emoting, um, and making the audience feel, uh, something, you know,

Pooja:

make everyone have fun, watch you dance.

Pooja:

That's, that's what the art of it is.

Pooja:

And I really hope that teams do more of that.

Pooja:

And, um, one thing I did want to mention is that we talked

Pooja:

about this as a panel as well.

Pooja:

Uh, the importance of your mix cannot be stressed enough.

Pooja:

Um, So we really encouraged teams to focus on that.

Pooja:

Make sure your mix is properly EQ'd and that it's not, um, so bass heavy

Pooja:

and maybe Naina you're more fit to, to talk about this, but we just we've

Pooja:

noticed that a few of the teams, like there were so bass heavy that we

Pooja:

couldn't really hear the vocals and the intricacies of their mixing, so that,

Pooja:

um, kind of diminished their sets.

Kuntal:

yeah, That's a conversation.

Kuntal:

And then I have all the time, right?

Kuntal:

Like with teams, it's like, look what you make isn't made to for your mixes.

Kuntal:

For you to listen to in your car,

Kuntal:

you can make a car version if you want, but you need to make sure you

Kuntal:

understand how to, um, get the levels clear out the mids, make sure the

Kuntal:

vocals are high enough so that all these things actually work when you

Kuntal:

have a giant hall, giant speakers.

Kuntal:

Um, and obviously there's people like Nana there's people like all

Kuntal:

these people on the circuit that, uh,

Kuntal:

are here to help those of you who maybe don't know how to do that.

Kuntal:

So I, I hope that people reach out to, um, those who do know

Kuntal:

how to do that and then get that help, whether it we're talking

Kuntal:

about a mix or we're talking about how to design for a certain.

Naina:

conversation, we can definitely like that.

Naina:

That's a longer conversation.

Naina:

That's not just about Burgh Um, it's, it's a.

Naina:

That's just like a knowledge gap.

Naina:

That thing is out there.

Naina:

It's really cool to see that there's a lot of, I think there was a lot

Naina:

of mixes at Burgh actually that were done by like newer mixers, which is

Naina:

actually really incredible to see.

Naina:

I actually feel like there's been a, there's been a drop off in terms of new

Naina:

talent being, you know, injected there.

Naina:

But, Um, the downside of that is that there is still a learning curve and

Naina:

not a big comp Burgh on a huge stage on a huge sound system like that.

Naina:

You can, uh, run into issues, but, um, I would say that another thing that I

Naina:

noticed was if someone playing music in the bank, am I going for three years?

Naina:

That okay.

Naina:

That's just me.

Naina:

Um, and I think that I noticed like, you know, over the course of the performances

Naina:

at Burgh that is indicative of

Naina:

maybe like a trend, is that.

Naina:

I think they were like pretty consistent pacing issues, um, across a bunch of

Naina:

different sets, which is something that came up in a lot of our comments.

Naina:

Um, I would say this is another aspect of like this Tik Tok Instagram effect.

Naina:

Um, it's, it's really tempting when you have like one minute

Naina:

video on Instagram, right.

Naina:

To make it like as high impact as possible.

Naina:

So it's like breakneck speed chock full of ideas for a minute.

Naina:

That doesn't work when you have eight minutes set.

Naina:

Um, and so I think we saw a lot of like really, really, uh, jam-packed

Naina:

segments followed by segments that were like kind of empty in terms of hard

Naina:

hitting ideas, followed by a segment that was like really jammed full again.

Naina:

And so pacing was something that I think I struggled to see a good job

Naina:

of on, uh, in the sets at Burgh.

Naina:

And I really hope that that's something that people understand that like

Naina:

constructing a set for a stage that is competitive, and that is supposed to be

Naina:

like someone was alluding to earlier, like demonstrating an understanding of

Naina:

Bhangra as a whole, as like an art form.

Naina:

That's not what goes into making Instagram videos.

Naina:

It is definitely drawing on similar skills, but it's not the same.

Naina:

Um, and so it's important to be able to prioritize ideas, to be able to

Naina:

construct segments in a way that encouraged, you know, your viewer

Naina:

to appreciate the flow, to follow the, your ideas all the way through.

Naina:

Um, the flip side of that, that I mentioned earlier, as we saw.

Naina:

Throw some really like crazy stuff out, you know, Cornell had some ideas that were

Naina:

super risky at FCB had ideas that were risky even further down our placings, like

Naina:

Tartan and also ideas that were risky.

Naina:

But like they all were trying interesting stuff.

Naina:

I think they're probably like three or four teams that had Jomar songs that just

Naina:

all of us were like, what is happening?

Naina:

Like they were just unexpected.

Naina:

Right?

Naina:

And so it was cool to at least see that like people are trying new

Naina:

stuff and hopefully that moves us away from some of the saturation of

Naina:

ideas and the recycling on the days that we were talking about earlier.

Naina:

But I think the future is bright.

Naina:

I think it was a really strong start.

Naina:

All things considered the season.

Naina:

Um, Burgh's such a high caliber competition.

Naina:

So, you know, starting, starting with a high caliber comp and

Naina:

a high caliber set of teams.

Naina:

I think it sets a really good bar for the first season, back in a long time.

Anil:

Alright.

Anil:

Um, like just to finish this up.

Anil:

Thank you guys.

Anil:

Thank you everybody for tuning or hopping on this call and sharing your thoughts.

Anil:

Um, we'll hopefully have this out very soon.

Anil:

Um, and we'll get working on that.

Pooja:

Thanks for having us.

Pooja:

It's a pleasure.

Naina:

That's a good

Simran:

the good time.

Kuntal:

guys.

Umer:

alright, thanks for listening to another episode of The Bhangra podcast.

Umer:

And now.

Umer:

for the little announcement I had in store for y'all So next week we'll

Umer:

be dropping the entire raw unedited judges, deliberation conversation.

Umer:

So be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel to get

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